Farm Talk Podcast: Horse, Heart & Connection- Equine Facilitated Learning

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Paul Ward:

Hi everyone. It’s Paul Ward here and welcome to another addition of Farm Talk. We are at Smarty Pants Ranch in Ojai, California, and our guest today is Andrea Gaines with Horse, Heart and Connection. Welcome to the show. 

Andrea Gaines:

Thank you.

Paul Ward:

Thank you for being here.

Andrea Gaines:

I’m excited to share what we do.

Paul Ward:

Our sponsors today are The Escrow Hub and The Money Store. So what is Horse, Heart and Connection?

Andrea Gaines:

Horse, Heart and Connection is a unique experience with horses where people have an opportunity to come be with horses. It’s a two hour experience and they get the opportunity to learn about horses and explore nonverbal communication, mindfulness, cultivating our intuition with the horse. Kind of like our mirror and we learn something about ourselves when we’re not riding them, but we are kind of coming to see in a very beautiful, peaceful setting in nature and have an opportunity to see them as a sentient being that’s very intuitive and intelligent like dolphins and whales and elephants. When we see them through that lens; through appreciation and what do they wanna show us so much? We can see within ourselves, that’s almost like a mirror and you learn a lot about yourself; mindfulness, and how to be more present and open in the world.

Paul Ward:

So you’re not riding the horse. You’re learning more about yourself through- What the horse is teaching you?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, the field is called Equine Facilitated Learning, and it’s just that horses are a way to learn about spirituality, about mindfulness and presence. So if you’re interested in learning and growing and maybe being a more subtle settled human, that’s a pleasure and good energy to be around. Right? There’s many practices that people have to take care of themselves to feel good. Sometimes we all need a little just experience to shift our perceptions. So horses basically can teach us what we don’t see in ourselves. They can show us what it’s like to use energy to perceive and feel in others and learn how to read energy and really become more intuitive.

Paul Ward:

Interesting, very interesting. It seems like there’s a meditation aspect to the program.

Andrea Gaines:

Yeah. I do like to start with a little grounding meditation for everyone, and it just helps everyone settle their nervous system from arriving and just quieting their mind. Because as you know, as a species, we’re very verbal, we’re very mental. Sometimes our minds can trip us up. When we get caught up in the, “What’s just happened, what could happen.” So just subtle, quiet the mind. When we kind of quiet the mind and drop down into our hearts and you know, our guts, which are our very deep intuition, our hearts and our guts. We can be more perceptive to the natural world and what it wants to show us. So just with people who are more open and relaxed more can come through. I think their energy’s more attractive for the horse to wanna approach the human.

Paul Ward:

Right. So who would come? Would it be young people, old people, teenagers.

Andrea Gaines:

I would say all types of people come for all different reasons. So I have a lot of individuals that come to do pro private sessions and they might come for different reasons. Someone might have recently lost a loved one and they just wanna let go of some of the grief. Sometimes people come and bring their children because they wanna expose them to the large animals and they’ve never been around them before. I had a woman bring her daughter who was terrified of dogs and she thought, well, maybe if I could bring her to this experience, she might overcome being afraid of horses, but maybe she’ll be not so afraid of dogs. What happened is she was really afraid of the horse too. She did not wanna get near it, she did not wanna touch it.

So we slowly just acclimated her to like breathing. Just breathe and sense. Like, “How does he seem right now?” And like trying to teach kids to drop into their bodies. Most kids are really intuitive, but for her, she just needed to comb the anxiety. So I just had to teach her how to rate her anxiety zero to 10. It was a 10, you know, it was a 10; she did not wanna get near it. Slowly through the breath and relaxing and letting go with the breath, she’d bring it down to an eight to a seven.

Paul Ward:

So she almost had a phobia? It sounds like.

Andrea Gaines:

In her mind, she was afraid of animals. Right. For whatever reason. So ultimately she was finally petting the horse, we got her inside with the horse to ultimately she was walking the horse till she was sitting down under the ground, looking up at the horse. 

Paul Ward:

Wow. 

Andrea Gaines:

So it is just little baby steps that kind of help people. I tried to help people overcome their fears but so much of it is like, ‘Take a deep breath. Just relax. You’re safe;” and settling the nervous system in the mind. Then by the end, I’m like, “Let’s go walk my dogs.” <Laugh> So, by the end we were walking the dogs and she was walking our neighbor’s dog every day after that. So to me that was an amazing transformation she made.

Paul Ward:

That’s a huge success story. Do you have, do you get skeptics? I mean, do people come and kind of like, their family wants to come and they’re kinda like, eh, just is, you know, but then they’re kind of converted by the end.

Andrea Gaines:

Yeah. Often like someone will come with their spouse and so they’re just coming along for the ride and you know, I think one of them is usually drawn to the horse or some love of horses. So, yes. But they often just settle because they have a preconceived notion, maybe like, “I don’t care about horses or I’m not interested.” But once they get settled and just feel the moment and try to perceive, like, ‘What is that horse trying to show me?” And, you know, they make a connection with them because they’re gentle. They’re so big and powerful, yet so kind. I think you just can’t help but sometimes fall in love. I had a woman bring her grandson who didn’t want to go. I think he was nine and she kind of dragged him along.

He seemed bored, but once he met the horse, his whole face lit up and he got in there and felt connected and he would get all kinds of intuitive answers from the horse. Because sometimes when you’re quiet in the mind and settled in your body, you can kind of ask questions and receive intuitive answers. So that’s one of the benefits that people have. Like, “I actually am intuitive, you know, I do get information when I’m still.” So in a way it’s like a form of horse meditation. But yeah, that kid was just in love and wanted to come back. 

Paul Ward:

Is the horse trained? It almost seems like, you know, other disciplines like dressage or hunter jumper or Western it’s like the rider is the one training, but here it’s almost kind of like the reverse.

Andrea Gaines:

Right. Well, I love people to see them from a different lens other than an object to ride. I mean, I do ride mine also, but if you can kind of shift your focus to like what are they; “Hello? How are you, what do you wanna show me? And, oh, thank you. Thank you.” And just meet them with appreciation and gratitude. Sometimes different things you see and notice that you might not notice if you are there to ride them or get a job done or a training done. But in terms of the horse being trained, no, I think you might select a certain energy of a horse for this kind of work in the Equine Therapy, Equine Facilitated Learning fields, because you want a calm horse. You want generally, I mean, they can all spook at any moment and be dangerous. But generally I think the horses that work well in this field are not really hyper or you know. Like an Arabian could be very high energy and pacing and running and you just, you know, you want to think about the safety of the humans. And so you have got to have a soft, nice energy for the horse and if they seem agreeable. Hopefully people are tapping into where they wanna do this work.

Paul Ward:

How did you choose these horses?

Andrea Gaines:

These horses; I didn’t originally choose them for the Equine Facilitated Learning work. I was just looking for a couple horses as pets; horses to ride. I thought when I went to get “Red”, the quarter horse, that I wanted a tan buckskin, horse. When I saw “Red”, it was just like his eyes, something in his eyes caught my heart. I think the same with “Flash.” He’s a thoroughbred. I think just something in me is like, that’s the one before I’d even seen a picture. So I’m sure it was a little bit of intuition guiding me to my future partners that I didn’t know we’d be doing this work.

Paul Ward:

Right. Do you find a difference between the two horses and their personalities with the folks that come to the program? Do the horses treat everybody the same or do they, I mean, each horse has their own personality. So do they interact with folks differently?

Andrea Gaines:

They do. One of the things after our meditation is I have them go meet them individually to sense the difference in their personality and their energy that day and how they are occurring to the human, because they are different. People often intuitively pick up on things. Like, “He’s like this. He’s an old soul or, oh, he’s very playful.”  And they’re usually spot on. So they’re picking up on something just by the energy that the horse is emitting. The horses do different things every time, just when I think, “Oh ‘Flash’ is a certain way and is always drawn to this type of person; it is the same with ‘Red,’ he’s great for grief. You know what, they’re both so tuned in to what that person needs.”

Andrea Gaines:

Sometimes someone has grief or trauma and needs a good cry and I always thought, “Well, ‘Red’s’ the one. But ‘Flash’ is equally good.” I had someone yesterday who had lost a spouse very recently and it was ‘Flash’ that was immediately there. He was very still, and he’s the thoroughbred, you know, who they have reputations of being, you know, very high energy. He just held her and just offered such a still presence. Sometimes that’s all someone needs. Sometimes to release emotions. It’s just like, “Oh, someone’s got me.” 

Paul Ward:

So sometimes they surprise you. Sometimes the horses even surprise you when you’re around them every day.

Andrea Gaines:

Yes.

Paul Ward:

What was your inspiration for doing this line of work?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, I’ve always been into wellness and I’m a wellness coach, fitness trainer, life coach, and all that was around helping people feel better about themselves and, “How am I going to wake up every day with good energy?”  Besides what we eat, how we move our bodies and then how we manage our mindset. I ultimately realize it’s all about our energy. You know, like the invisible which is the world they live in. I’ve been married 25 years and we as a couple would go to workshops to learn about how to keep the spark alive and long term relationships. This great teacher, David Data, I highly recommend him. He just taught us that it’s about,  “What you are offering for the sake of the other? Are you aware at any moment, are you open or are you closed?”

Well, a lot of times you’re like, “I’m closed, I’m in a bad mood,” you know, so that’s usually a baseline; whether you’re open or closed. So often we’re just a few breaths away from opening again. Once you can open with the breath, your front surface of your body becomes more available and then you can perceive, “Oh, you’re here. It’s not just myself.” And thinking about all my issues or my irritations, it’s like, “Well, Hey, what can I do for you?” It’s the world that the horses live from really just, they are in their bodies. They’re living, feeling outward, their heart and their gut all the time. Very, very far out, right. Their awareness is very big. Right. And we have that capacity too. Like fill out, you know, beyond you even like, oh, there’s someone walking down the street or like, oh, “What can I do for you today?” Even if I don’t feel like it, like how to be of service. And I really feel like they are great teachers for this.

Paul Ward:

Is this a new discipline? I mean, has it been around for a long time?

Andrea Gaines:

Actually, I don’t know how many years Equine Therapy has been in existence. Equine Facilitated Learning is a newer field. I’m gonna guess the last 10 years. 

Paul Ward:

Ok. So pretty new.

Andrea Gaines:

It evolved from Equine Therapy, it could have been maybe 15 years anyway. It’s just a little bit different from Equine Therapy in that they often target, traditionally, veterans. Sometimes kids with autism. And that was originally I think, how they worked with Equine Therapy. Now this has evolved to more personal growth, but we see all kinds of people in both disciplines and ultimately if there’s feelings that need to be released- the way I see it is that feelings are good and it’s good to feel. And it’s good to let go, because if you can let them go and let them leave your body, you’re gonna make a little more room for love in your life. 

Paul Ward:

So I would imagine that folks who come into the program have a lot of stress or anxiety and they just leave with a calmer sense after kind of living in the moment with such a large animal. It’s such a spiritual being.

Andrea Gaines:

Sometimes people will come that are stressed and they just need a little self care. This is just another form of self care. Quieting the mind and just having like a day to just be. I had an older woman come whose husband was in Hospice. She was doing full-time care, right? So she’s, you know, 24/7 in giving mode and probably exhausting herself and wasn’t really taking care of herself that much just taking care of him. She wanted to do it. She just got so nurtured by- I think it was “Red” that day- and she felt so loved. She basically kind of reclaimed herself that day. We talked about all the challenges, but also, I’m always trying to draw out the, “What do you wanna create? And who do you wanna be? And who are you?” Like, “Let’s dream, let’s dream your future. Like, how do you wanna do this last phase of his life?” We started kind of brainstorming and she basically got her life back. She started swimming three times a week. She started taking breaks at certain times of the day, going for a walk, doing her journaling and reading, and she’s come back several times and she’s just so much happier and taking care of herself again, and like being with him during this phase. 

Paul Ward:

But that spark all started with spending time with the horse.

Andrea Gaines:

Yes. Because the family’s like, “We’ve got to do something for mom.” So yeah, a lot of people will come that maybe live in the city cuz we’re out, you know, 90 minutes from Los Angeles. So they need a break from urban living. Sometimes families come. You know, kids were home from school because of the pandemic.  So people weren’t connecting with each other as much and they weren’t getting out in nature. So I’ve had families come and a lot of times the intimacy that we create it’s powerful. And sometimes because we gather in a way that’s in a circle sometimes and we’re looking each other in the eye and they’re having intimacy with each other, with the horse right there. A lot of times families and couples will speak things that they appreciate and love about each other that maybe they haven’t in years. So we’re just trying to set up a quiet, private, peaceful space where we can have intimacy with each other and with the horses to guide us. Sometimes the horses will lay down with someone. I can’t make any of this happen.

Paul Ward:

Right. It’s all kind of natural, intuitive, just whatever’s happening in the moment.

Andrea Gaines:

Yeah. So once they get to meet the horse one on one and they’ll pick a horse they’re drawn to, for whatever reason, their intuition will usually tell them. Then we’ll get to go down into the arena and they can have one on one time with the horse and you know, just walk around, play, sit, just pet them. Or sometimes people have sat down. Sometimes a horse has sat down with them and they have just circled right next to the person that laid down and everyone, our jaws dropped like, “Wow!”

Paul Ward:

Right.

Andrea Gaines:

How lucky are they?

Paul Ward:

Right. Cause yeah, you don’t see that every day. I mean how often do you see a horse even sitting down? Not all that often. Really?

Andrea Gaines:

No. And sometimes they’ll stay and sit and have a conversation with a horse. Sometimes I might ask them questions just to draw out what they want, what they desire. So they’re getting more clarity. A lot of times if the person is just speaking authentically and from their heart about whatever it is they desire or what they’re afraid of, the horse is often there so, and once they can let go of the expectation of, “Well, does he like me? Is he gonna come to me?” So we gotta work with all those stories we have in our head that we make up about, “If I’m liked”or “Is he ignoring me?”  So we kind of look at well, how is that something you see in your life with your relationships? It’s just an inquiry. Sometimes it leads somewhere. Sometimes it doesn’t but it’s just, the horses are doing different things. Sometimes they will walk with the person. I’ve seen them walk all around and they stay with the person the whole time and the person’s having a conversation with the horse. So horses are just a way into your heart and your inner guidance system.

Paul Ward:

How does the program benefit kids?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, I love kids coming because it’s great to teach them about the natural world. You have kids, you know when they’re outside and playing and their imagination comes to life and here it’s so beautiful. I feel so lucky to be here, but we’re surrounded by the orange trees. There’s hummingbirds everywhere. There’s birds, it’s quiet, it’s peaceful. You can hear everything and teaching kids about the natural world is so important. When they come with the horse, they learn real things. I’m hoping to validate how intuitive those kids are because they’re born really being psychic and probably their kids are psychic until they’re seven or eight until culture kind of trains it out of them with education. So I really wanna validate that, “You know what? You know. You can hear. You can ask questions and the trees can communicate back to you, the animals, the horses.”

We get them to ask questions, that sort of thing. Sometimes teens come too. I sometimes help local high schools and they’ll bring a group. Just as a way to help some kids with anxiety or kids that maybe aren’t doing as well. It’s just bringing them out into nature, go hiking, whatever, come be with horses. I think it can settle their nervous system. And I had one boy who was probably 14 that came and it was a group session. He was very fidgety, you know, tapping his feet and tapping his hand. And he had his turn to go in with the horse and he had a hard time making eye contact and getting in the group. It’s just his personality. He went in with a horse and he was just kind of fidgety and asked, “Can I have a brush? Can I have a brush?” I responded that I’d get him a brush. Then I realized, okay, “Put that brush down.” So what I did is I got him to just put his hands on the horse, close his eyes and try to get him to start breathing and bring his energy down. Because it was up there. I could feel it, everyone could feel it. And finally, after a few of those breaths, he got really relaxed. Everything dropped, you could see it. He’s like, “This is like when I played basketball;” cuz he was really good at basketball, “Hi Flash.” Okay. That means take a deep breath. He says, “This is like when I get in the zone right before I do a shot.” It’s like this moment of clarity comes and he makes the shot.

And after that he walked out, his voice had dropped two octaves. He talked in a deeper voice and all the girls were like, ‘What happened to you? Your voice is so different.” Everything about him felt and looked so different. It’s like a total calm and clarity came over him. And I heard after the fact, according to the teachers, he completely changed after that. He went on to be student body president and was leading all these groups at school. And who knew that that day, here, was a stepping stone for some transformation for him. 

Paul Ward:

So very cool. 

Andrea Gaines:

I wish that for everyone that walks through here. 

Paul Ward:

That’s interesting cuz I wouldn’t think, I mean, personally, I just wouldn’t think that kids would be kind of that transformed, but it’s interesting how the animals just have such an impact on pretty much everybody.

Andrea Gaines:

It’s true. I’ve had families come with three or four kids and we’ll all sit down together with the horse and he’ll come walk around and stand with us in the circle. He might stand over them and go stand over each person in the family. They’ve even chosen to lie down and they’re looking up at the horse. Then they’ll all do some, you know, little process or like appreciation exercise. So they’re all going around appreciating something about each family member. So it brings them so close together and yeah, I’m just trying to create connection, create more love in our hearts. Have people, you know, kind of coming back to themselves and feeling like all is well. “I am a manifester. I am grounded. I am calm. I am well and may I go forth in the world to be a blessing to all those I encounter.” So I really hope people leave with that, you know? Then they go back to real life and you know, do their best to be of service in the world.

Paul Ward:

Right. But a little bit more intuitive after they leave. 

Andrea Gaines:

I hope so. Hopefully. 

Paul Ward:

That’s awesome. Is the horse empathetic?

Andrea Gaines:

I think so. I think they’re feeling people’s emotions and energy. The second they pull in the driveway really from far, far away. So my interest is getting those people congruent, their energy congruent, meaning balanced, open, so that they’re not closed. So that they’re available to the horse. I do think the horse can show empathy. When people are sad or if they’ve had recent grief, you’ll see the horse walk up to the person and just lean on them. I didn’t tell them to do that. Someone came that was pregnant and there was a group of six women and they came for a fun friends outing. The one that was pregnant, the horse walked up to that one and just laid his head gently as ever on her belly and just rested it there for five minutes. We’re just like, “He knows.”

Andrea Gaines:

I think sometimes people are afraid and very anxious. “Like, “I don’t know, this is a dangerous animal.” I mean, they might come just to overcome that. The horse can notice that they need real stillness. They need to be calm and still and sometimes they won’t move. So I do think that empathy is something that they’re able to pick up on. I can’t scientifically say how it is so. But I do know that we all have an electromagnetic field around our body and I know they’ve measured it from the HeartMath Institute out Stanford and they’ve measured it 10 feet out of our body and on horses they’ve measured it 40 feet out.

Paul Ward:

Really?

Andrea Gaines:

So I think they’re picking up on our energetic field.

Paul Ward:

Do you get other horse people that come or are they kind of in their own zone in their own discipline and you’re never gonna see a massage person or a hunter jumper person. Do you get horse people?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, sometimes it’s interesting. Sometimes if you’re a horse owner already and you compete or whatever, you’re like, “I know horses. I’m not that interested.”  Which I understand but I do notice that sometimes when they come, I’m hoping to give them some tools to see their horse differently.  Sometimes they are open to coming and are like, ‘Well, what else can I do with my horse?” Then I’m curious, like, “Does your horse even like you? <laugh> Does your horse wanna do what you’re asking him to do? Have you ever asked him?” And because when you’re in the world of competing, it’s really fun, but it’s very training oriented and it’s time based cuz you’re training every day and you’re on a schedule and you’re like, “Let’s go!” you know?

There’s not a lot of downtime. You’re not just going to sit or lay on the ground with your horse cuz it’s a different mentality or you’re busy. I’m hoping that they could just make time also to have non-structured time with a horse to see what it wants to show them. I have friends that are professionals and competing and those are big dreams to win and it’s fun and it’s advancing and it’s a challenge. Sometimes things happen with their horses where they get injured, they get sick and/or the horse shows signs of stress, but they wanna keep competing. Those signs of stress could be something to examine. Like, “Does your horse want to do this?” So it’s like, do you really want to ponder if you could give up your dream with your animal that doesn’t wanna do this. That’s very painful for some people. I’m just hoping to inspire them to find other ways to play with them so that they’re building the sweet connection also. Not just like, ‘I’m the dominant one in this relationship and we’re following my agenda.”

Paul Ward:

Right. And as soon as you arrive at the stables, it’s like, go time. Right? There might be some downtime as well.

Andrea Gaines:

That, and you get to groom them and wash them. That’s all pleasurable, I think for the horse and the human. Which is great and important. I just like to show them there’s other ways to play. There’s a whole field called Liberty Horsemanship and Liberty Training, which is like Clicker Training. You know, they do that with dolphins and dogs and so you can play games and teach them to do fun tricks and you find out what they like to do. You just build on what they’re already doing. It’s fun.

Paul Ward:

Very cool. How does the horse benefit? I mean, I understand how the guest benefits, but how does the horse benefit from the program?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, I think they get to do whatever the heck they wanna do. Number one, I’m not making them do anything. I’m hoping to help create an inviting human energetic being that they want to come to. One that also can express appreciation. So a famous animal psychic told me, “Don’t just have people come and hope to get something from the horse they need to give back. Stop telling the horse’s old story. Don’t just say, ‘oh, he was da, da, da, when he was three.’” She’s like, “They don’t like that. Cause you know, they’re who they are today and they’re not their past.” So I hope that people can see them as someone they could play with and they could just sit with. 

You could do a lot of people do groundwork with horses and have them on a lead rope and are exercising them. That’s a wonderful way for the horse to not just be led by being on top of them. But also you can do it without ropes and halters too. That’s just an exploration that one could get into if they wanted to play more with their horse. Liberty Training is fun and you can get them to lie down. You can get them to step; like you’ve seen with the Cirque du Soleil horses. I mean, you could build to that. You would have to perhaps change how you see your horse. Meaning,  “I don’t need you to do this and you don’t have to do this.” I had a friend that rode her horse for a long time. She’s like, “You know what, I’m not gonna make you do anything anymore. I’m not gonna ever get on you again until you tell me it’s okay.” She waited and waited. I mean, and she’s very intuitive, but she got the signal that she could get on again and that started her new relationship with her horse. She did all kinds of groundwork, Liberty Training, and actually became a professional at that, where she got hired to do that for movies and stuff.

Paul Ward:

That’s awesome. How can people find out more about Horse, Heart and Connection? How do people find you?

Andrea Gaines:

Well, I’m on the web under horseheartandconnection.com. That’s four words, horseheartandconnection.com. There’s lots of stories and testimonials about people’s experiences. I’m on Instagram @horseheartandconnection, with lots of pictures of “Red” and “Flash” so people can follow them. And my email and phone numbers are on the website. If you wanna call me and talk about a session. I also do once a month group sessions where individuals can sign up at $75 a person and it’s a group that comes together and it’s a way to meet others and experience what a Horse Heart Connection session is. It’s interesting how as humans, we all are going through the same things and the horse has a way of just leaving us all feeling more grounded and present. Then I also do many individual sessions in between those once a month groups for private sessions; could be one person, could be a couple, could be a family. It’s a wonderful way to reset, reclaim and leave feeling grounded and at least have a wonderful time out in nature with some amazing patient, kind, loving beings, “Red” and “Flash.”

Paul Ward:

Well, Andrea Gaines, thank you so much for being our guest on this edition of Farm Talk.

Andrea Gaines:

It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Paul Ward:

We love being here at the Smarty Pants Ranch in Ojai, California.

Andrea Gaines:

Thank you.

Paul Ward:

This is Paul Ward and thank you again for joining us for this edition of Farm Talk. We of course wanna thank our sponsors again, The Escrow Hub and The Money Store. Be sure to tune in next time for another edition of Farm Talk.